Discussion:
John Locke's Age
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thinbluemime
2006-09-12 10:54:42 UTC
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Does anyone know the age of John Locke? I dont remember if it has ever
been revealed, via drivers license, birth certificate, or dialog on Lost.
This show quote by Locke's "Dad", Anthony, got me to thinking:

S1E19 Anthony: "Really? Well, I guess that makes me God, huh? I didn't
know you existed until a year after you were born. She told me she wasn't
even going to have a baby... you... at all. Then she drops off the face of
the planet. When she turns up again, she's asking for money... telling me
she put you up for adoption. You going to drink that or what? You have a
family your own?"
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
Bev Vincent
2006-09-12 11:22:35 UTC
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Post by thinbluemime
Does anyone know the age of John Locke? I dont remember if it has ever
been revealed, via drivers license, birth certificate, or dialog on Lost.
According to Wikipedia, he's 58, though I don't know the source of their
information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke_(Lost)
--
Bev Vincent
www.BevVincent.com
thinbluemime
2006-09-12 11:46:02 UTC
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Post by Bev Vincent
Post by thinbluemime
Does anyone know the age of John Locke? I dont remember if it has ever
been revealed, via drivers license, birth certificate, or dialog on Lost.
According to Wikipedia, he's 58, though I don't know the source of their
information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke_(Lost)
Thanks Bev, thats a start. And they dont quote the source of their
information, hmmm
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
thinbluemime
2006-09-12 22:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by thinbluemime
Post by Bev Vincent
Post by thinbluemime
Does anyone know the age of John Locke? I dont remember if it has ever
been revealed, via drivers license, birth certificate, or dialog on Lost.
According to Wikipedia, he's 58, though I don't know the source of their
information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke_(Lost)
Thanks Bev, thats a start. And they dont quote the source of their
information, hmmm
wikipedia has him at 58
lostpedia is ambiguous
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/John_Locke
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
Jack Locke
2006-09-12 21:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev Vincent
Post by thinbluemime
Does anyone know the age of John Locke? I dont remember if it has ever
been revealed, via drivers license, birth certificate, or dialog on Lost.
According to Wikipedia, he's 58, though I don't know the source of their
information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke_(Lost)
Probably the same source I referenced last November when I mentioned Locke's
age here: the premiere issue of Lost magazine had some script excerpts which
ID'd Locke as being 58.

However, as I said at the time, it hasn't been mentioned onscreen (and still
hasn't) so they could easily change it if they see a need later. That script
excerpt could have come from a version thrown together before O'Quinn was
even cast (I've seen scriptlets since which referred to Boone as being
"around 30" which they obviously changed their mind on).
thinbluemime
2006-09-12 22:09:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Locke
Post by Bev Vincent
Post by thinbluemime
Does anyone know the age of John Locke? I dont remember if it has ever
been revealed, via drivers license, birth certificate, or dialog on Lost.
According to Wikipedia, he's 58, though I don't know the source of their
information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke_(Lost)
Probably the same source I referenced last November when I mentioned Locke's
age here: the premiere issue of Lost magazine had some script excerpts which
ID'd Locke as being 58.
However, as I said at the time, it hasn't been mentioned onscreen (and still
hasn't) so they could easily change it if they see a need later. That script
excerpt could have come from a version thrown together before O'Quinn was
even cast (I've seen scriptlets since which referred to Boone as being
"around 30" which they obviously changed their mind on).
I am gonna write lostpedia editor, and clarify source. I hope she replies
quickly....
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
Gourbi
2006-09-13 09:01:24 UTC
Permalink
"Hi everybody" [from a famous Driveshaft's song...],


I found a clue about Locke's age in season 1, episode 6:


S01E06 - House of the Rising Sun


[We see Charlie and Locke back at the caves going through the wreckage.
Charlie starts to wander off and Locke follows.]

CHARLIE: You following me?
LOCKE: Yes.
CHARLIE: There's no need. I'm just going to the loo.
LOCKE: Is there something you want to tell me Charlie?
CHARLIE: I'm going to the loo.
LOCKE: It's dangerous out there. Until we get back to the beach, I'm not
breaking line of sight with you.
CHARLIE: Bugger off.
LOCKE: I know who you are. And I know what you're looking for.
Driveshaft -- you played bass.
CHARLIE: And guitar -- on a couple of tracks. You really heard of us?
LOCKE: Hey, just because I'm over 40 doesn't mean I'm deaf. I have both
your albums. Although, I thought that your self-titled debut was a much
stronger effort than Oil Change. It's a shame what happened to the band.
How long since you played?



To me, Locke seems to be more than 40 and less than 50 years old. If he
would have been more than 50, he would have said: "Hey, just because I'm
over 50 doesn't mean I'm deaf."


Cheers
Gourbi
Post by Bev Vincent
Post by thinbluemime
Does anyone know the age of John Locke? I dont remember if it has ever
been revealed, via drivers license, birth certificate, or dialog on Lost.
According to Wikipedia, he's 58, though I don't know the source of their
information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke_(Lost)
tdciago
2006-09-12 12:06:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by thinbluemime
Does anyone know the age of John Locke?
I don't know how Wikipedia can possibly say he's 58. According to
documentation shown on "Lost," his mother was born in 1940. See
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Emily_Annabeth_Locke . That makes her 64
at the time Flight 815 disappeared, and I don't think she had Locke
when she was 6.
:)

Lostpedia says of Locke, "Probably in his 40s (his mother is in her
60s)." Terry O'Quinn is 54 now, so Wikipedia can't be referring to him
being 58 either. I'd say Locke can be no older than 48 in 2004, which
would make his mother 16 at his birth.

By the way, this line of dialogue from Cooper just jumped out at me
Post by thinbluemime
She told me she wasn't even going to have a baby... you... at all. Then she drops off the face of the planet.
Interesting phrase there.
thinbluemime
2006-09-12 12:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by tdciago
Post by thinbluemime
Does anyone know the age of John Locke?
I don't know how Wikipedia can possibly say he's 58. According to
documentation shown on "Lost," his mother was born in 1940. See
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Emily_Annabeth_Locke . That makes her 64
at the time Flight 815 disappeared, and I don't think she had Locke
when she was 6.
:)
Lostpedia says of Locke, "Probably in his 40s (his mother is in her
60s)." Terry O'Quinn is 54 now, so Wikipedia can't be referring to him
being 58 either. I'd say Locke can be no older than 48 in 2004, which
would make his mother 16 at his birth.
By the way, this line of dialogue from Cooper just jumped out at me
Post by thinbluemime
She told me she wasn't even going to have a baby... you... at all.
Then she drops off the face of the planet.
Interesting phrase there.
Yep, that line hit me again too. I am trying to determine a timeline, when
Locke's mother "dissapeared". I searched losthatch.com transcripts and no
mention of Locke's age.

I guess I am trying to determine how Locke's birth ties into the early
stages of the Dharma Initiative.
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
tdciago
2006-09-12 13:21:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by thinbluemime
Yep, that line hit me again too.
Speaking of which...

S1E19 ("Deus ex Machina") Anthony: These doves fly a lot faster than
you think. So you've got to really lead them.

"Medieval illustrations of seven stars typically indicate the
constellation Pleiades (PLYDVTh), the 'Seven Sisters' of Greek
mythology(1). The Pleiades were the seven daughters of Atlas and
Pleione, and the attendants of Artemis, moon goddess of the hunt. One
day, the hunter Orion caught a glimpse of their beauty, and so gave
pursuit. The virgin goddesses grew weary from the chase and called out
to their matron for help; Artemis-or in some accounts Jupiter-heard
their cries and turned the seven sisters into doves or pigeons (PRYDH)
which flew off into the sky, becoming the stars of the Pleiades: "You
who are set in the sky, bearing the same name as the winged doves"
(Greek Lyric IV, Lamprocles Frag. 736)."
( http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Essays/star.html )

In an episode with a Greek drama-inspired title, Cooper (aka Poseidon)
tells his son John (aka Orion) how to hunt doves. I love it!

If there's any doubt that Cooper ("Well, I guess that makes me God,
huh?") is the "Deus" in question (hooked up to a dialysis "machina"),
notice the water-related photos in his house:
http://www.lost-tv.com/pictures/displayimage.php?pid=8157&fullsize=1
(kayaking & fishing)
http://www.lost-tv.com/pictures/displayimage.php?pid=7967&fullsize=1
(scuba diving & pointing out a STARfish)

As for Locke, here's Orion's Belt:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=382&pos=310

Man, I loved Season One!
Robert
2006-09-12 13:49:25 UTC
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Post by tdciago
In an episode with a Greek drama-inspired title, Cooper (aka Poseidon)
tells his son John (aka Orion) how to hunt doves. I love it!
On the other hand, your theory had Mr. Paik delivering a watch to
Anthony Cooper in Los Angeles, where events in "Lockdown" show he is
unlikely to be.
tdciago
2006-09-12 14:18:48 UTC
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Post by Robert
On the other hand, your theory had Mr. Paik delivering a watch to
Anthony Cooper in Los Angeles, where events in "Lockdown" show he is
unlikely to be.
The flashback events in "Lockdown" took place some years before Flight
815. Locke was still walking, and had a home inspection business. He
wasn't in a wheelchair working for Randy at the box company.

Cooper, a con man, was probably very familiar with the L.A. area, and
may have desired to return to his old territory, even if he had left it
years earlier. His return may have been temporary, just long enough to
complete a business deal with Paik. We don't know what happened to the
two guys he conned. For all we know, they may be dead, in prison, or
have moved elsewhere. Cooper certainly has the know-how and the funds
to hide out in L.A. if he wants to, particularly if enough time has
passed for his death scam to have been convincing. Jimmy Bane never
did find the money on Locke, and it was implied that Cooper got away
without being detected. He could be using a fake identity. He's got
the resources to pull it off.
Robert
2006-09-12 14:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by tdciago
Post by Robert
On the other hand, your theory had Mr. Paik delivering a watch to
Anthony Cooper in Los Angeles, where events in "Lockdown" show he is
unlikely to be.
The flashback events in "Lockdown" took place some years before Flight
815. Locke was still walking, and had a home inspection business. He
wasn't in a wheelchair working for Randy at the box company.
Given that Locke was walking and that Nadia was in the United States
that flashback had to take place 4-7 years before the flight. My guess
would be closer to 4. I don't think Nadia goes from being on the run
from Saddam's regime to buying a house in Los Angeles in a month.
Post by tdciago
Cooper, a con man, was probably very familiar with the L.A. area, and
may have desired to return to his old territory, even if he had left it
years earlier. His return may have been temporary, just long enough to
complete a business deal with Paik. We don't know what happened to the
two guys he conned. For all we know, they may be dead, in prison, or
have moved elsewhere. Cooper certainly has the know-how and the funds
to hide out in L.A. if he wants to, particularly if enough time has
passed for his death scam to have been convincing. Jimmy Bane never
did find the money on Locke, and it was implied that Cooper got away
without being detected. He could be using a fake identity. He's got
the resources to pull it off.
As I said, he's unlikely to be in Los Angeles. Sure, he *could* be
there, but there's no reason to believe he *is* there at the time of
the flight.

Besides, given Cooper's standard of living, I don't think hiding out is
his style.
tdciago
2006-09-12 15:12:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
As I said, he's unlikely to be in Los Angeles. Sure, he *could* be
there, but there's no reason to believe he *is* there at the time of
the flight.
We may never know for sure the identity of Paik's two associates.
However, there are a couple of ways we *could* find out.

Jin could have a flashback that will shed light on the delivery of the
first watch in Australia. In fact, we could even see both associates
being specifically named by Paik. (Somehow, I doubt he would write
them down.)

If the second watch hasn't been destroyed, lost, or permanently gone
with Michael (I can't remember who had it last), an inscription or
hidden compartment could be revealed that would give a clue as to the
intended recipient.

In any case, I think there are enough hints to theoretically connect
the dots between Paik, Hanso, and Cooper (along with their mythological
counterparts). Hanso has been tied to Hades by Cerberus and
Persephone. Paik Heavy Industries and Paik Motors have been tied to
Hanso as part of The "Lost" Experience and _Bad Twin_. Allusions to
the Olympics (held in honor of Zeus) and the Seoul (Soul) Gateway Hotel
also hint at a Paik-Zeus link, as does Jin as his messenger. And
Cooper, as I've already mentioned, has been associated with God and
water. Given Paik's shady business practices and strong-arm dealings,
it's not much of a stretch to connect him with the rich and crooked
Cooper who was known to reside in L.A. When combined with "chronos"
(Cronus/Cronos/Saturn) in the form of watches and the father of Zeus,
Hades and Poseidon, it all fits.

There is some indication that the creators of the show had a corporate
takeover scenario in mind. In a deleted scene from Season 1, the pilot
of 815 tells Claire that his mother once dated a guy named Bernard who
sold his computer company and became very rich. Although the Bernard
we know (aka Cronos) is apparently a dentist, it's interesting to
speculate on a possible alternate storyline for him. TPTB may have
totally abandoned the watch delivery story by now, which would be a
shame. I'd like to know more about it.
Robert
2006-09-12 17:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by tdciago
Post by Robert
As I said, he's unlikely to be in Los Angeles. Sure, he *could* be
there, but there's no reason to believe he *is* there at the time of
the flight.
We may never know for sure the identity of Paik's two associates.
Probably not, but I don't think the associates are important. For that
matter, I don't think Paik himself is important, except as he relates
to Sun's and Jin's backstories. The watch delivery may have some
significance to Korean culture or Paik's business, or it may just be a
contrivance to explain why Jin and Sun were on a Sydney-Los Angeles
flight.
Post by tdciago
However, there are a couple of ways we *could* find out.
Jin could have a flashback that will shed light on the delivery of the
first watch in Australia. In fact, we could even see both associates
being specifically named by Paik. (Somehow, I doubt he would write
them down.)
It's practically a given that Jin has met the first of the associates.
If he were Alvar Hanso I'd expect something to be said the first time
either Jin or Sun was told about the orientation film.
Post by tdciago
If the second watch hasn't been destroyed, lost, or permanently gone
with Michael (I can't remember who had it last), an inscription or
hidden compartment could be revealed that would give a clue as to the
intended recipient.
I think the last time the watch was mentioned was when Jin gave it to
Michael on the raft. I couldn't tell you if was even seen during the
second season.
Post by tdciago
In any case, I think there are enough hints to theoretically connect
the dots between Paik, Hanso, and Cooper (along with their mythological
counterparts). Hanso has been tied to Hades by Cerberus and
Persephone.
Neither Persephone or Cerberus provide a link to Hanso personally.
Also, if you are going to admit characters from the Lost Experience
into your theories, you also have to acknowledge that Hanso has been
missing since 2002.
Post by tdciago
Paik Heavy Industries and Paik Motors have been tied to
Hanso as part of The "Lost" Experience and _Bad Twin_. Allusions to
the Olympics (held in honor of Zeus) and the Seoul (Soul) Gateway Hotel
also hint at a Paik-Zeus link, as does Jin as his messenger.
That's reaching. The Olympics were alluded to because they were held
in Seoul in 1988. Seoul is the largest city in Korea. These allusions
need no more reason than that the show contains Korean characters.
Post by tdciago
And
Cooper, as I've already mentioned, has been associated with God and
water. Given Paik's shady business practices and strong-arm dealings,
it's not much of a stretch to connect him with the rich and crooked
Cooper who was known to reside in L.A.
Except that there is no indication that the two men were ever even
aware of each other. Cooper also strikes me as too much of an
independent operator to work with Paik.
Post by tdciago
When combined with "chronos"
(Cronus/Cronos/Saturn) in the form of watches and the father of Zeus,
Hades and Poseidon, it all fits.
I could draw allusions between the characters on Lost and the Disney
characters, but that doesn't mean the allusions mean anything. I could
say that Sawyer is Mickey and Jack is Donald and Locke is Goofy and Sun
and Jin are Chip and Dale, but that doesn't mean the plot of "Mickey
and the Beanstalk" has any bearing on "Lost". I could say that all of
this is backed up by Sawyer's mentioning Disneyland in an episode, but
that doesn't make it anything more than a reference to Disneyland.
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